2016-09-10 17:07:54	+Karkus[m]	I am here
2016-09-10 17:08:49	+Tobbi	Great.
2016-09-10 17:08:55	+Tobbi	Oh, yeah, we should|ve started 8 minutes ago.
2016-09-10 17:09:13	+mteufel[m]	Indeed.
2016-09-10 17:09:28	+mt	!meetingstart
2016-09-10 17:09:35	-->	Karkus [Karkus] (realname) (~Karkus476@supertux/Karkus) has joined #supertux
2016-09-10 17:09:35	-i-	Mode #supertux [+v Karkus] by ChanServ
2016-09-10 17:09:41	+mt	which of course still doesn't do anything
2016-09-10 17:09:51	+christ2go[m]	Are those commands just for the log or real?
2016-09-10 17:10:06	+christ2go[m]	like actually doing something?
2016-09-10 17:10:07	+Karkus	We need a meeting logger and vote bot :D
2016-09-10 17:10:17	+mt	christ2go[m]: for the log. I have a text log. If I care enough, then I can write a parser for it
2016-09-10 17:11:09	+mt	okay, let's start with the first point
2016-09-10 17:11:22	+mt	!discussion Anything left for 0.5.0
2016-09-10 17:11:47	+christ2go[m]	The scripting reveal stuff should be merged
2016-09-10 17:11:51	+mt	We can see the main stuff about that at https://github.com/SuperTux/supertux/milestone/5
2016-09-10 17:12:15	+Tobbi	Scripting reveal?
2016-09-10 17:12:20	+mt	I think christ2go[m] is talking about the ExposedObject template PR
2016-09-10 17:12:27	+Tobbi	You mean my PR for the unexpose object template class?
2016-09-10 17:12:34	+christ2go[m]	Yeah, ... forgot what it was called
2016-09-10 17:12:48	+Tobbi	IMO, we can. This doesn't change a thing.
2016-09-10 17:12:50	+Karkus	And maths22's issues
2016-09-10 17:12:55	+Tobbi	Not for end users anyway.
2016-09-10 17:13:00	+mt	tobbi: we can. can you resolve the merge conflicts?
2016-09-10 17:13:04	+Tobbi	sure.
2016-09-10 17:13:06	+Tobbi	one moment.
2016-09-10 17:14:39	-->	lumidify [lumidify] (Lumidify Productions) (~lumidify@unaffiliated/lumidify) has joined #supertux
2016-09-10 17:14:45	+Karkus	Anything else which we think needs completing before 0.5?
2016-09-10 17:15:22	+mt	Karkus: maths22's issues
2016-09-10 17:15:26	+mt	as you mentioned
2016-09-10 17:15:39	+Karkus	And then we're absolutely ready?
2016-09-10 17:15:43	+mt	I'd prefer to have them done *BEFORE* the next release candidate
2016-09-10 17:15:58	+Karkus	mt: We are having a next release candidate?
2016-09-10 17:16:09	+mt	Because then on the release of the candidate, we can test this
2016-09-10 17:16:29	+mt	Karkus: it is a release candidate
2016-09-10 17:16:41	+Karkus	mt: Okay.
2016-09-10 17:16:57	+mt	ideally, after a release candidate, nothing, except for the version number needs to be changed
2016-09-10 17:17:08	+Tobbi	I would say we need another RC for translators to test out their translations, right?
2016-09-10 17:17:20	+Karkus	release candidate 4, and then a final 0.5 release.
2016-09-10 17:17:27	+Tobbi	Sounds good.
2016-09-10 17:17:42	+Karkus	TODO: maths22's issues.
2016-09-10 17:17:45	+mt	maybe also rc 5 depending if new issues are reported and fixed after the release of rc 4
2016-09-10 17:18:05	+Karkus	Any possible complications which might happen during release, which we can forsee?
2016-09-10 17:18:13	+christ2go[m]	mt: So ideally one rc should be "new issue free"
2016-09-10 17:18:18	+Tobbi	Yes, people will complain.
2016-09-10 17:18:20	+Tobbi	That|s an issue.
2016-09-10 17:18:21	+Tobbi	:P
2016-09-10 17:18:22	+mt	christ2go[m]: Yes
2016-09-10 17:18:37	+mt	christ2go[m]: just read the term release candidate literally
2016-09-10 17:18:52	+mt	it is a proposal for a release
2016-09-10 17:19:25	+mt	just think of it like a casting
2016-09-10 17:19:32	+tobbi[m]	DSDS.
2016-09-10 17:19:34	+mt	you have release candidates
2016-09-10 17:19:44	+mt	and at the end of the casting, you will have a release
2016-09-10 17:19:52	+mt	and other candidates get discarded
2016-09-10 17:20:07	<--	lumidify (~lumidify@unaffiliated/lumidify) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2016-09-10 17:20:16	+mt	okay
2016-09-10 17:20:34	+mt	the translation stuff is also all handled
2016-09-10 17:21:47	+mt	and we will all put on our todo list for a string freeze that we should remember to update all submodules that contain strings before the freeze
2016-09-10 17:21:52	+mt	because   > credits.stxt: again, fix @serano01's name on his request
2016-09-10 17:21:57	+mt	this is still pending
2016-09-10 17:22:07	+mt	but luckily, names are not translatable
2016-09-10 17:22:33	+Tobbi	Yes, but also unfortunately, because our Latin translator did complain about that.
2016-09-10 17:22:35	+mt	so we can still update the submodule
2016-09-10 17:23:03	+christ2go[m]	Latin translater? (Or are you joking)
2016-09-10 17:23:10	+mt	(no he isn't)
2016-09-10 17:23:11	+Tobbi	I am not. SuperTux is available in Latin
2016-09-10 17:23:20	+Tobbi	s/is/will be?
2016-09-10 17:23:34	+mt	!discussionend
2016-09-10 17:23:46	+mt	!discussion Setting up a regular meeting schedule
2016-09-10 17:24:02	+mt	Okay
2016-09-10 17:24:03	+Tobbi	Sounds good. Not sure if I can attend, though.
2016-09-10 17:24:10	+Karkus	Firstly, regularity
2016-09-10 17:24:14	+Karkus	How often?
2016-09-10 17:24:17	+christ2go[m]	How often? When?
2016-09-10 17:24:19	+mt	at least monthly
2016-09-10 17:24:29	+mt	is that okay?
2016-09-10 17:24:39	+Tobbi	Yup.
2016-09-10 17:24:44	+Karkus	mt: That sounds good.
2016-09-10 17:24:50	+christ2go[m]	(Sorry) twice or once a month, not more often but not less than once a month
2016-09-10 17:25:37	+mt	I do agree about the not less than once a month, that's also why I wrote at least
2016-09-10 17:25:46	+Tobbi	Uhm, mt: We already announced string freeze...
2016-09-10 17:25:57	+Tobbi	re your comment.
2016-09-10 17:26:03	+Tobbi	reminder to update all string-containing submodules that need to be included in the release, before string freeze
2016-09-10 17:26:05	+mt	Tobbi: it's a reminder for the next releases
2016-09-10 17:26:09	+Tobbi	Oh okay.
2016-09-10 17:26:10	+Tobbi	Good.
2016-09-10 17:26:15	+christ2go[m]	Just say once a month, if a second meeting will be needed it can be planned in the first one
2016-09-10 17:26:40	+mt	because if we don't write it down, then we don't learn from it, I guess
2016-09-10 17:26:55	+Tobbi	true.
2016-09-10 17:26:57	+mt	christ2go[m]: well, my comment was that I didn't like to say 'not more often'
2016-09-10 17:27:05	+mt	(but tobbi interrupted me)
2016-09-10 17:27:28	+mt	because I wouldn't mind small, short meetings about small decisions made by the responsible people
2016-09-10 17:28:33	+mt	these small meetings aren't supposed to be attended by all developers, while the regular meetings often would be
2016-09-10 17:28:42	+christ2go[m]	Ah ok... I'd say that meetings should be attentede by as many as possible, that's why I opted for the not more often ... I didn't mean it like "never do that" jus that they shouldn't be planned more often, so that everyone has a chanche to attend
2016-09-10 17:29:04	+christ2go[m]	Sorry didn't see your comment, then my critic is irrelevant (because of the not all part)
2016-09-10 17:29:31	+Karkus	Do we mean monthly as in calender month?
2016-09-10 17:29:32	+mt	christ2go[m]: well these decisions would be really small decisions and I think it's better to have approval by one or two people at some defined point
2016-09-10 17:29:44	+Karkus	Or shall we just have one at the same time every 4 weeks?
2016-09-10 17:29:55	+mt	rather than making a decision yourself and committing some stuff
2016-09-10 17:30:20	+christ2go[m]	yeah, but don't we already make such discussions in the issues?
2016-09-10 17:30:21	+mt	karkus: the large regular meeting should be on a certain day
2016-09-10 17:30:36	+mt	christ2go[m]: issues are spread over, and it's hard to find one of them
2016-09-10 17:30:42	+mt	about a certain problem
2016-09-10 17:30:59	+Karkus	christ2go[m]: We do, but they aren't focussed, extensive or decisive enough
2016-09-10 17:31:31	+christ2go[m]	Ok one big meeting (monthly?) and some small more regularly (weekly?)
2016-09-10 17:32:32	+Karkus	I don't see much advantage to small ones, on the scale we are working at. We should add things to be discussed to the meetings repo, and read through the list as we go.
2016-09-10 17:32:40	+mt	christ2go[m]: see -internal
2016-09-10 17:32:41	+Karkus	*time scale
2016-09-10 17:32:59	+christ2go[m]	ok
2016-09-10 17:33:05	+mt	karkus: well, I think sometimes meetings are better than discussing via issues
2016-09-10 17:33:14	+mt	because talking is much more effective
2016-09-10 17:33:26	+mt	and you don't spam 40 people's inboxes
2016-09-10 17:33:44	+Karkus	mt: That's what I just said.
2016-09-10 17:33:47	+mt	okay, when
2016-09-10 17:34:01	+christ2go[m]	Weekends
2016-09-10 17:34:05	+Karkus	Meetings are more focussed, extensive and decisive
2016-09-10 17:34:16	+mt	karkus: oops, I meant christ2go[m]
2016-09-10 17:34:23	+mt	christ2go[m]: right. weekends
2016-09-10 17:34:29	+Karkus	Same time as this, every 4 weeks.
2016-09-10 17:34:52	+mt	I already proposed, Saturdays, 15:00 to maximum 19:00 UTC
2016-09-10 17:34:54	+christ2go[m]	sounds good
2016-09-10 17:35:15	+mt	Saturdays: because it's not a workday, and it's not the day before a workday
2016-09-10 17:35:36	+Tobbi	But the day after one where people need to relax >P
2016-09-10 17:35:47	+Karkus	See internal, mt.
2016-09-10 17:35:50	+mt	that means if people have to stay up late due to the time zone, they can sleep longer on the next day
2016-09-10 17:36:24	+mt	do we agree on saturdays for above mentioned reasons?
2016-09-10 17:36:34	+Tobbi	Yeah, we do.
2016-09-10 17:36:39	+Karkus	yep.
2016-09-10 17:38:10	+christ2go[m]	ok
2016-09-10 17:38:15	+Tobbi	Okay, guys, I caused a regression, I think.
2016-09-10 17:38:45	+Tobbi	(just on a side note)
2016-09-10 17:38:47	+mt	tobbi later
2016-09-10 17:38:51	+Tobbi	sure.
2016-09-10 17:39:34	+mt	!vote regular meeting on Saturday: first saturday in month (so there's enough time to schedule more regular meetings that month)
2016-09-10 17:39:46	+Tobbi	+1
2016-09-10 17:39:49	+mt	+1
2016-09-10 17:39:51	+Karkus	vote no. vote every 4 weeks.
2016-09-10 17:40:12	+mt	Karkus: that is about every 4 weeks
2016-09-10 17:40:16	+Karkus	I don't think "first saturday every month" is particularly good.
2016-09-10 17:40:28	+mt	and we'd have to keep track of when 4 weeks expire then.
2016-09-10 17:40:41	+christ2go[m]	+1
2016-09-10 17:40:47	+Karkus	mt: What if saturday is the 1st?
2016-09-10 17:40:52	+Karkus	Then we'd all miss it.
2016-09-10 17:41:15	+mt	I usually notice when a month changes
2016-09-10 17:41:21	+Karkus	mt: Four weeks is easy to keep track of, as long as you haven't lost 6 fingers.
2016-09-10 17:41:27	+Karkus	>6*
2016-09-10 17:42:03	+Karkus	I'm not trying to be a pain here. If you all think that'd be easier, that's fine.
2016-09-10 17:42:40	+christ2go[m]	Once a month is easier to remember than having to count 4 weeks all the time
2016-09-10 17:43:02	+mt	well Karkus you can vote -1 now I guess
2016-09-10 17:43:08	+mt	We have discussed this
2016-09-10 17:43:10	+Karkus	-1
2016-09-10 17:43:20	+mt	and anyone who wants to change their opinion can use -1 now too
2016-09-10 17:43:26	+mt	but I don't plan on doing so
2016-09-10 17:43:39	+Tobbi	I change my vote to 0 because I don|t really care.
2016-09-10 17:43:44	+Tobbi	I will have to see whether I can attend in any case.
2016-09-10 17:43:46	+Karkus	Is that allowed?
2016-09-10 17:44:05	+mt	yes
2016-09-10 17:44:48	+Karkus	Okay, so the result for that ended up as +1 right?
2016-09-10 17:45:22	+mt	+1: christ2go[m], me; 0: Tobbi; Karkus: -1
2016-09-10 17:45:24	+christ2go[m]	Yes ( karkus; -1 , tobbi 0, mt,christ2go +1)
2016-09-10 17:45:32	+mt	So +2
2016-09-10 17:45:49	+Karkus	2 -1 +/- 0 = 1
2016-09-10 17:45:51	+mt	but we can reconsider it for the next meeting
2016-09-10 17:46:08	+mt	because +1, or +2
2016-09-10 17:46:13	+mt	is not really important
2016-09-10 17:46:15	+Karkus	In four week's time. I mean, a month
2016-09-10 17:46:36	+mt	then I suppose we schedule the next month's meeting for the first saturday in october
2016-09-10 17:46:42	+mt	and will reconsider this idea
2016-09-10 17:46:53	+Karkus	Okay.
2016-09-10 17:47:34	+Karkus	end of discussion?
2016-09-10 17:47:39	+mt	no time
2016-09-10 17:47:46	+mt	15:00 - 19:00 UTC
2016-09-10 17:48:02	+christ2go[m]	+1
2016-09-10 17:48:02	+Karkus	15:00 to 17:00 or later.
2016-09-10 17:48:18	+mt	because it works for everyone (Europe: afternoon/evening, Americas: morning, Australia: night, but weekend)
2016-09-10 17:48:34	+mt	Karkus: I'd keep that as a general timespan
2016-09-10 17:48:54	+Karkus	mt: A general timespan isn't very useful, imo.
2016-09-10 17:48:55	+mt	so it can be 16:00 to 17;00 UTC, or 16:00 to 18:00 UTC or whatever we need
2016-09-10 17:49:06	+mt	that's to be discussed at the previous meeting
2016-09-10 17:49:30	+mt	and it will allow being flexible in case on attendee can't attend later or earlier the day
2016-09-10 17:49:39	+mt	*one
2016-09-10 17:50:06	+Karkus	Well, +1 for flexibility, -1 for inconsistent schedule.
2016-09-10 17:50:34	+christ2go[m]	0
2016-09-10 17:50:34	+mt	Karkus: I think it's much better than the very incosistent meetings right now
2016-09-10 17:50:43	+Karkus	mt: Absolutely.
2016-09-10 17:50:58	+Karkus	I vote 0 for the time, but I am absolutely okay with it.
2016-09-10 17:51:06	+mt	I'd suggest we agree on that now
2016-09-10 17:51:14	+mt	until someone comes up with a better solution
2016-09-10 17:51:48	+mt	because saying: on the first saturday of a month, you, as a supertux dev, must attend to that meeting from 15:00 - 17:00 UTC isn't nice
2016-09-10 17:52:09	+Karkus	*darf, not muss
2016-09-10 17:52:16	+christ2go[m]	* sollte
2016-09-10 17:52:23	+christ2go[m]	**sollte
2016-09-10 17:52:25	+mt	should, if that makes you happier
2016-09-10 17:52:32	+Karkus	christ2go: Precisely.
2016-09-10 17:52:38	+mt	but it would be very nice
2016-09-10 17:52:56	+mt	if all developers could at least have a chance to attend by being flexible with that
2016-09-10 17:53:29	+Karkus	mt: If we can't all attend at the same time, it would be a pretty rubbish meeting.
2016-09-10 17:53:33	+mt	it's not nice either if it's a rather important release meeting for example, and one dev can't attend until an hour earlier
2016-09-10 17:53:38	+Karkus	And a 4 hour long discussion?
2016-09-10 17:53:42	+Karkus	RIP logs
2016-09-10 17:53:43	+mt	karkus: nope
2016-09-10 17:53:49	+mt	you didn't understand that right
2016-09-10 17:53:59	+mt	on the previous meeting, we discuss
2016-09-10 17:54:03	+Karkus	mt: What have I misunderstood?
2016-09-10 17:54:14	+mt	which hours of these hours in the 4 hour timespan is going to be used for the meeting
2016-09-10 17:54:31	+mt	usually, it will be two out of these four hours
2016-09-10 17:54:47	+Karkus	mt: Okay, fine. I vote 0, but whatever will get the most people to attend.
2016-09-10 17:55:03	+mt	right whatever will get the most people to attend
2016-09-10 17:56:01	+Karkus	One point to consider is that, take tobbi for example, he might miss meeting X, and then have no idea when meeting X+1 is, so won't attend that either.
2016-09-10 17:56:09	+Karkus	Or anyone.
2016-09-10 17:56:19	+Karkus	But Tobbi said he might miss some
2016-09-10 17:56:33	+christ2go[m]	Make meeting announcements in the meetingsa repo/ add them to the headline (when you join irc)
2016-09-10 17:56:41	+mt	right
2016-09-10 17:56:59	+mt	and the exact time could be changed after the meeting too, if there's urgent need for it
2016-09-10 17:57:07	+Karkus	Also add a timeanddate.com countdown.
2016-09-10 17:57:11	+mt	good
2016-09-10 17:57:31	+Karkus	So that I don't have to use my time zone maths, which mt has firsthand experience of.
2016-09-10 17:58:07	+mt	!discussionend
2016-09-10 17:58:49	+mt	!discussion Issue #530, and its implementation
2016-09-10 17:59:12	+mt	christ2go[m]: what do you have to say about it
2016-09-10 17:59:21	+mt	and Karkus, why did you add it to the agenda?
2016-09-10 18:00:20	+christ2go[m]	mt: Didn't you suggest to add it?
2016-09-10 18:00:27	+Karkus	Well, we need to discuss what we will use it for
2016-09-10 18:00:37	+Tobbi	I really don't know enough about squirrel to be able to give code input on that one.
2016-09-10 18:00:41	+Tobbi	But sounds really nice.
2016-09-10 18:00:44	+Karkus	Who has tested it?
2016-09-10 18:00:56	+Karkus	I haven't because I didn't set up a test level.
2016-09-10 18:01:11	+Karkus	Have you set one up yet, christ2go[m]?
2016-09-10 18:01:16	+mteufel[m]	I haven't yet tested it either, but I will once we can consider merging it
2016-09-10 18:01:40	+mteufel[m]	It's entirely pointless to do this now, since we first need to release 0.5 before we can consider merging it
2016-09-10 18:01:52	+christ2go[m]	Me :D But that's not enough. Didn't know how to add a level for that, because I had no ideas where it coulod be used. Buit I'm currently using it for the inventory and there it works fine
2016-09-10 18:02:36	+mt	So: what we will use it for, karkus
2016-09-10 18:02:42	+Karkus	Okay. Can it be used from within levels? Or only on worldmaps?
2016-09-10 18:02:56	+christ2go[m]	Both but storage is worldmap/profile local
2016-09-10 18:03:07	+Karkus	mt: We could rewrite the keys on the forest worldmap
2016-09-10 18:03:09	+mt	1) it can serve as a general abstraction for writing to a levelset/profile local location
2016-09-10 18:03:27	+mt	so, that can be inventory, as well as scripts
2016-09-10 18:03:37	+mt	it should be usable from both levels and worldmaps
2016-09-10 18:03:37	+christ2go[m]	And C++ classes will be able to access it (or are but only in my storepowerup branch)
2016-09-10 18:03:58	+Karkus	Okay.
2016-09-10 18:03:59	+mt	and I don't care much what people use it for
2016-09-10 18:04:09	+christ2go[m]	mt: It is, but the storage is worldmap/profile local
2016-09-10 18:04:17	+Karkus	Could it be abused?
2016-09-10 18:04:41	+Karkus	Could you make a script that would fill up the .sss with random information?
2016-09-10 18:04:42	+mt	christ2go[m]: are you certain it is worldmap/profile local?
2016-09-10 18:04:52	+mt	because what if a levelset uses two worldmaps
2016-09-10 18:04:52	+christ2go[m]	You could save a lot of data ... And it lacks functionality to check if avariable is set, must add that
2016-09-10 18:05:02	+mt	that need to access both the same information
2016-09-10 18:05:10	+christ2go[m]	mt: Yeah, it's created whenever an *.,stsg is created
2016-09-10 18:05:20	+mt	christ2go[m]: an stsg is per levelset
2016-09-10 18:05:31	+mt	an stsg can contain information about multiple worldmaps
2016-09-10 18:05:39	+Karkus	christ2go[m]: It needs to be impossible to abuse, since I as well as others often download from the forums etc.
2016-09-10 18:05:44	+christ2go[m]	Ok sorry, didn't know about these technical terms
2016-09-10 18:06:22	+mt	well making it sanitize input should be considered before merging it
2016-09-10 18:06:42	+christ2go[m]	Karkus (IRC): Large data could currently be stored.
2016-09-10 18:06:50	+mt	most importantly we need to prevent long-running scripts
2016-09-10 18:06:52	+mt	e.g.
2016-09-10 18:07:01	+Karkus	Okay. I think general consensus is; we aren't ready to discuss this, as most people haven't tested it.
2016-09-10 18:07:02	+mt	i = 0
2016-09-10 18:07:05	+mt	while True:
2016-09-10 18:07:24	+christ2go[m]	mt: We can't really solve the halting problem
2016-09-10 18:07:26	+mt	    write_data("key{}".format(i), "helllloooooooo")
2016-09-10 18:07:32	+mt	    i += 1
2016-09-10 18:07:43	+mt	# that would write full a disk
2016-09-10 18:08:04	+mt	# so squirrel scripts should be stopped after running for whatever time
2016-09-10 18:08:13	+Karkus	mt: Certainly.
2016-09-10 18:08:23	+christ2go[m]	Maybe use a point system: Per level you get M (e.g. 10) storage points. When you save a integer it taks 1 satorage point, when you store a list it takes the sum of it's storage points
2016-09-10 18:08:26	+Karkus	But to monitor them, they need to be in another thread.
2016-09-10 18:08:32	+mt	but I think we don't need to discuss that now
2016-09-10 18:08:46	+Karkus	When we are a) ready to merge (past 0.5) and b) people have tested, we can discuss further.
2016-09-10 18:08:54	+mt	inded
2016-09-10 18:08:58	+mt	*indeed
2016-09-10 18:09:03	+mt	!discussionend
2016-09-10 18:09:26	+mt	!discussion Issue #473, and its implementation
2016-09-10 18:09:41	+mt	My opinion here is the same, discuss after 0.5 when this is ready to merge
2016-09-10 18:10:11	+mt	Because if we rush to make decisions about that kind of stuff, we'll end up with stuff we don't want. Like the data module thing.
2016-09-10 18:10:36	+christ2go[m]	Yeah, ... when they forest keys are implemented with it (I'll probalbly do that next week, I'm a bit stressed currently with school and stuff)
2016-09-10 18:10:41	+mt	We discussed that as well, but we didn't test it, so we made a wrong decision there.
2016-09-10 18:11:01	+Karkus	Well, now is an opportunity to discuss implementation, I guess.
2016-09-10 18:11:12	+Karkus	If anyone has any comments, go ahead.
2016-09-10 18:11:20	+Karkus	But I agree with mt otherwise.
2016-09-10 18:11:23	+Karkus	Let's leave it.
2016-09-10 18:11:33	+Karkus	My mistake to put it on the list.
2016-09-10 18:11:39	+mt	It looks like no one has a point about that, right?
2016-09-10 18:11:50	+Karkus	Yep.
2016-09-10 18:12:12	+mt	!discussionend
2016-09-10 18:12:23	+mt	!discussion Issue #499, for a vote
2016-09-10 18:12:38	+christ2go[m]	mt: Adding tests (=googletests) for such things is hard, because the game needs to be loaded, might be worth to add a good debugging api to future
2016-09-10 18:12:40	+mt	As you probably know, I already committed something that marks it as deprecated
2016-09-10 18:12:56	+Karkus	mt: Yes, so this is being included in 0.5
2016-09-10 18:13:10	+Karkus	As in, we are removing it.
2016-09-10 18:13:17	+christ2go[m]	+1
2016-09-10 18:13:21	+Karkus	No vote needed.
2016-09-10 18:13:27	+Karkus	!discussionend
2016-09-10 18:13:42	+mt	christ2go[m]: Aside from that being off-topic right now, debugging is a very different approach
2016-09-10 18:14:01	+mt	unit tests are to make sure everything works without even running it
2016-09-10 18:14:10	+Karkus	We can move those off-topic comments into their topic in the logs
2016-09-10 18:14:10	+mt	so, it can be tested from a CI
2016-09-10 18:14:39	+christ2go[m]	mt: I got confused with that ... it's ot anyway
2016-09-10 18:14:53	+Karkus	!discussion Removing the data submodule
2016-09-10 18:14:56	+mt	Karkus: "Removing the data submodule (implications, and a vote)" -> we're not ready to do this now anyway, so let's discuss it later?
2016-09-10 18:15:10	+Karkus	mt: I think soon or never.
2016-09-10 18:15:21	+mt	as a general fact, we should never discuss anything when we're not ready to do it
2016-09-10 18:15:24	+Karkus	We can't let the task get any more difficult to achieve.
2016-09-10 18:15:29	+Tobbi	People are gonna be very mad at us...
2016-09-10 18:15:32	+Tobbi	Especially packagers.
2016-09-10 18:15:35	+mt	we can do it, after a release
2016-09-10 18:15:38	+mt	Tobbi: why?
2016-09-10 18:16:05	+Karkus	mt: "ready to do it" is a silly thing to say. Why would we be "ready to do it", if we hadn't already discussed it?
2016-09-10 18:17:01	+mt	Karkus: well I just think it's entirely pointless to do it now just before the release when we have a lot of different stuff to do
2016-09-10 18:17:07	+mt	that is way more important
2016-09-10 18:17:39	+Karkus	mt: five minutes ago we said that we didn't have much left for 0.5
2016-09-10 18:17:46	+Karkus	I consider this an important decision.
2016-09-10 18:17:57	+Karkus	We can discuss it in the next meeting, then.
2016-09-10 18:17:57	+mt	Karkus: 0.5 is stressing anyway
2016-09-10 18:18:03	+Karkus	Of course.
2016-09-10 18:18:05	+mt	You have to remember this, and that
2016-09-10 18:18:15	+mt	and you have to make sure stuff works
2016-09-10 18:18:21	+Karkus	But we are not actually discussing that now.
2016-09-10 18:18:25	+Karkus	Would you like to?
2016-09-10 18:18:25	+mt	and making changes is totally stupid
2016-09-10 18:18:36	+mt	you know
2016-09-10 18:18:37	+Karkus	mt: Planning ahead is not stupid.
2016-09-10 18:18:51	+mt	Karkus: planning isn't but there's not much to be planned
2016-09-10 18:19:07	+Karkus	mt: Well, whether we are going to do it is a start
2016-09-10 18:19:09	+mt	someone will submit a patch for re-integrating the data submodule, people will vote on it
2016-09-10 18:19:23	+mt	and if we agree, it will land
2016-09-10 18:19:44	+Karkus	mt: Then we must migrate all of the issues and pull requests
2016-09-10 18:20:03	+Tobbi	Can't we actually add a git clone command to the cmake files instead?
2016-09-10 18:20:18	+mt	We can just make the data submodule an empty repository with just information and issues
2016-09-10 18:20:28	+mt	tobbi: no
2016-09-10 18:20:31	+Tobbi	ok
2016-09-10 18:20:37	+mt	that does not solve the point why we wanted to discuss this
2016-09-10 18:20:46	+Tobbi	Which was?
2016-09-10 18:20:55	+Tobbi	(sorry, I forgot)
2016-09-10 18:20:58	+mt	working with a submodule or separate repository is a pain
2016-09-10 18:21:17	+mt	because you always have to think about two repositories
2016-09-10 18:21:55	+mt	!discussionend this is pointless now
2016-09-10 18:22:13	+mt	!discussion Discuss the word "milestone" in regards to SuperTux milestone 1, milestone 2. Are we still using this? Our website uses it (see the downloads page).
2016-09-10 18:22:31	+Karkus	moot point
2016-09-10 18:22:41	+mt	tl;dr: we won't use milestone now
2016-09-10 18:22:44	+Karkus	we have discussed this separately in irc
2016-09-10 18:22:49	+mt	can we agree on using supertux-next
2016-09-10 18:23:03	+Karkus	mt: future?
2016-09-10 18:23:04	+mt	for the next release/next tasks in the future?
2016-09-10 18:23:05	+Tobbi	Or just supertux as the executable name?
2016-09-10 18:23:08	+Karkus	Like the milestone
2016-09-10 18:23:09	+christ2go[m]	yeah
2016-09-10 18:23:10	+Tobbi	Sure, for tasks, this is nice.
2016-09-10 18:23:38	+mt	supertux2 stays because it's a clear distinction between the old and the new release series
2016-09-10 18:23:48	+Tobbi	ok
2016-09-10 18:23:49	+mt	and that is something where packagers might complain
2016-09-10 18:23:57	+Tobbi	true
2016-09-10 18:24:01	+Karkus	we have to keep that, unfortunately, I agree
2016-09-10 18:24:08	+mt	because if you want supertux-0.1.3 and supertux-0.5.0-rc.3 on the same computer
2016-09-10 18:24:29	+mt	then either they conflict, or you put them in different prefixes, or you assign them different names
2016-09-10 18:24:32	+Karkus	Can you play milestone 1 levels on 0.5.0?
2016-09-10 18:24:37	+mt	we already have done the latter
2016-09-10 18:24:37	+tobbi[m]	Of course.
2016-09-10 18:25:10	+Karkus	okay.
2016-09-10 18:25:11	+mt	and let's face it
2016-09-10 18:25:22	+mt	most players never see the name of the executable
2016-09-10 18:25:31	+mt	so why change a running system
2016-09-10 18:25:41	+christ2go[m]	true
2016-09-10 18:25:54	+Karkus	mt: We don't really know what our userbase does, but I agree.
2016-09-10 18:26:24	brmbrmcar	I see the executables
2016-09-10 18:26:35	brmbrmcar	unless it is a standard install
2016-09-10 18:26:43	brmbrmcar	in which case I just test
2016-09-10 18:27:20	+Tobbi	Okay, guys, I gotta get going, talk to you later.
2016-09-10 18:27:28	+Karkus	brmbrmcar: Have you been here the whole time?
2016-09-10 18:27:30	+Tobbi	remind me to revert the jittering fix for it causes a bug.
2016-09-10 18:27:35	+Karkus	Tobbi: See you later.
2016-09-10 18:27:35	+mt	about Milestone 1/2 on the website
2016-09-10 18:27:44	+mt	it needs to be converted to jekyll anyway
2016-09-10 18:27:50	<--	Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2016-09-10 18:27:59	+mt	so we can more easily update that
2016-09-10 18:28:03	+mt	I started to work on it
2016-09-10 18:28:04	+Karkus	And the Milestone 3 design document, which is just plain confusing.
2016-09-10 18:28:15	+mt	but I'm often busy
2016-09-10 18:31:02	+Karkus	Is that everything?
2016-09-10 18:31:12	+mt	yes
2016-09-10 18:31:20	+mt	!discussionend
2016-09-10 18:31:29	+Karkus	Okay. That was a short meeting.
2016-09-10 18:31:29	+mt	RustyBox[m], serano[m]; you there?
2016-09-10 18:31:51	+mt	karkus: might talk a bit with the level design team if they're there
2016-09-10 18:32:07	+mt	RustyBox probably isn't since he told us he wouldn't be available until sunday
2016-09-10 18:32:17	+christ2go[m]	Karkus (IRC): Was that ironic?
2016-09-10 18:32:29	+mt	christ2go[m]: we've had longer meetings already
2016-09-10 18:32:51	+christ2go[m]	ok
2016-09-10 18:33:02	+mt	anyway
2016-09-10 18:33:13	+Karkus	christ2go[m]: It wasn't ironic, per se.
2016-09-10 18:33:27	+Karkus	But no-one added to the list :(
2016-09-10 18:33:31	+Karkus	!meetingend
2016-09-10 18:33:40	+mt	karkus: nomeetingend
2016-09-10 18:33:45	+Karkus	mt: ?
2016-09-10 18:33:55	+mt	since krobonil submitted an almost final version of Bright Thunders
2016-09-10 18:33:58	+Karkus	!meetingunend
2016-09-10 18:34:09	+mt	now we can discuss if we need some more music
2016-09-10 18:34:25	+Karkus	mt: You should have appended to the agenda
2016-09-10 18:34:59	+mt	I only had that idea very late
2016-09-10 18:35:11	+mt	and, you know, people's opinions change always anyway
2016-09-10 18:35:16	+Karkus	Okay.
2016-09-10 18:35:25	+mt	ideally I'd prefer to have meetings more often but in 45 minutes
2016-09-10 18:35:44	+mt	we always need soooo much time
2016-09-10 18:35:57	+mt	anyway, do we need more music?
2016-09-10 18:35:58	+christ2go[m]	Voice meetings might make things go faster
2016-09-10 18:36:00	+mt	Ghost Forest?
2016-09-10 18:36:10	+mt	Ghost Forest Worldmap?
2016-09-10 18:37:06	+Karkus	mt: Definitely for the worldmap, imo
2016-09-10 18:37:18	+Karkus	Not sure about anything else.
2016-09-10 18:37:49	+mt	okay
2016-09-10 18:38:05	+mt	also, I had an idea about that island between antarctica and forest world
2016-09-10 18:38:13	+Karkus	mt: Ooh, okay
2016-09-10 18:38:15	+Karkus	I'm all ears
2016-09-10 18:38:21	+mt	we had this idea about Glacier Island
2016-09-10 18:38:26	+mt	but that's totally stupid
2016-09-10 18:38:35	+Karkus	Right
2016-09-10 18:38:36	+mt	Glaciers are rarely on islands
2016-09-10 18:38:56	+mt	We could simply put a small mountain on it though
2016-09-10 18:38:56	+Karkus	Well, everything is an island ;D
2016-09-10 18:39:05	+Karkus	mt: We could.
2016-09-10 18:39:10	+Karkus	That's not a bad idea
2016-09-10 18:39:20	+mt	and because I also had that idea of putting a haunted house a la mario on it
2016-09-10 18:39:35	+mt	I had a different idea, that's not directly stealing from mario
2016-09-10 18:39:40	+mt	Haunted Mine
2016-09-10 18:39:53	+Karkus	I like that idea.
2016-09-10 18:39:57	+christ2go[m]	mt: A Spukschloss isn't that ghost forst (I put the translation just to make shure=
2016-09-10 18:40:23	+mt	I already have a clear picture of how that could look, Karkus
2016-09-10 18:40:40	+mt	christ2go[m]: mario has haunted houses and ships and so on in different worlds
2016-09-10 18:40:57	+christ2go[m]	ok
2016-09-10 18:41:32	+mt	it could... actually... also make at least partial use of the crystal cave tileset
2016-09-10 18:41:41	+mt	which is never used in the main game yet
2016-09-10 18:42:19	+christ2go[m]	That would be nice. 0.6 or future?
2016-09-10 18:42:24	+mt	0.6
2016-09-10 18:42:36	+mt	well, with the level team's changes
2016-09-10 18:43:32	-i-	ChanServ has changed topic for #supertux from "Meeting: Today, 15:00 UTC, Issue #591 | https://github.com/SuperTux | Stable: 0.4.0 | Pre-release: 0.5.0-rc.3 | Nightlies: https://download.supertuxproject.org/ | World 2 Feedback: http://bit.ly/2bYaBWW | #supertux-notifications" to "https://github.com/SuperTux | Stable: 0.4.0 | Pre-release: 0.5.0-rc.3 | Nightlies: https://download.supertuxproject.org/ | World 2 Feedback: http://bit.ly/2bYaBWW | #supertux-notifications"
2016-09-10 18:43:54	+mt	I suppose we can end the meeting now
2016-09-10 18:44:00	+mt	christ2go[m], karkus?
2016-09-10 18:44:15	+Karkus	Yup.
2016-09-10 18:44:18	+christ2go[m]	ok
2016-09-10 18:44:49	+mt	!meetingend
2016-09-10 18:45:11	+mt	Thanks for attending
2016-09-10 18:45:35	+Karkus	np
2016-09-10 18:45:37	+Karkus	:D
2016-09-10 18:45:47	+christ2go[m]	mt: Will you attach the log etc to github? (I'm kinda in the mood of writing a log parser)
2016-09-10 18:45:56	+mt	christ2go[m]: I will
